I think we are about to do something stupid. We are planning to have an In Vitro fertilization procedure done this month. As some of you know, the wife's biological clock is ticking and I really want a baby, boy or girl I really don't care at this point.
The cost for this procedure is somewhere around $16,000 dollars!! Yes, that's a lot of money and money that, as you probably already know we don't have. Over the last two years we've spent most of our savings (10 to 15k). We've charged up the credit cards again and we can't seem to control our spending. The income is good but it just becomes a number in bank account that comes and goes. It feels like most of this reckless spending over the last couple of years has been due to infertility. It sounds crazy but it was a lot easier to take a vacation than to have to deal with the stress of friends and family having kids left and right (baby showers kill the wife).
I simply cannot take it anymore and part of me knows this is not going to work. So the plan is go in to more debt and see what happens. I'm looking at this as a new car I'm not going to buy or that next vacation we're not going to take. My only fear is that we won't conceive, we will have more debt and once again go crazy and spend money we don't have in order to heal some of the pain and stress infertility can cause.
Nothing good has happened over the last couple of years. Seems like things used to happen for a reason but not anymore. Life was always good. I got a decent car at 16. I graduated from high school with a diploma. I went to college, a very good university. Luck seemed to be on my side. In 2002 I graduated with a Bachelors degree in MIS. I had great job, made a lot of friends but decided to leave for a company with better pay. Three years later, again I left that company for more pay. During that time, I married the only woman who's ever going to love me. We bought a house, picked up Golden Retriever along the way... Things were going the way they were 'supposed' to go.
2007 came around and it was that time, it was supposed to be our time. My best friend had a baby, people at work were having babies, people in our family were 'accidentally' having babies. Cousins, brothers, sisters, even ex girlfriends wanted to let me know they had a baby! It was our time. Everything pointed to us having a baby. All the signs, symptoms, god, nature, you name it- it was supposed to happen BUT it never did.
If you read back a few months, I even offended fellow bloggers and was very rude to some people. Anger and envy set it, something I don't ever want to experience again. So I had a WTF was I thinking moment and simply stopped caring. I didn't care about work, our house, our dog etc. Over time we found things to focus on but the spending, drinking, partying went on... and here I am today in the same boat.
I don't know how to end this post, will it work? will it fail? will something good happen? who knows... all I know is we are about to add new debt- a lot of debt.
HS
Hump Day
3 hours ago
33 comments:
As a veteran of infertility, I can tell you that:
1) It is easy to get sucked into the mind set of "just one more cycle." You have to decide beforehand where the line in the sand is.
2) If it doesn't work, you may still have embryos that can be frozen, so trying a FET is less expensive than doing a fresh cycle again.
3) Not being able to conceive isn't an excuse to blow all sorts of money.
4) There are lots of ways to build a family.
and
5) Check with your state laws. Some IF should be covered. Also, some doctors offer a discount for "cash" vs credit. Also, if you have a mail order prescription plan....see if you can get your meds with them....again, can be way cheaper.
Good luck...it isn't an easy road. And I am assuming you have already tried IUI....if not...explore it...WAY cheaper than IVF.
I can see how this would be a tough decision. Getting out of debt and saving the money for this procedure adds time, and time is not something you have a lot of when treating infertility.
You have to be realistic, though. If everything goes perfectly and you have a baby in 9 months, it will add to your costs, not decrease them. Where are you planning to cut to make a baby work for you financially?
Best of luck to you and your wife with your treatments. I will keep you in my prayers.
Mysti,
Thanks! yea we've done a lot.. does it cost to store those eggs, embryos? hmm.. need to look in to that.
Goat!, part of me is going with the 'I'll deal with it when it happens attitude'... for now I just want a bun in the oven lol
HS
Yes, it does cost money to store the frozen embryos (aka totsicles!). This is assuming that you have some to freeze. They can be stored for future cycles, which can include siblings...assuming you are successful.
Just remember that having a child doesn't define who you are. While I am rooting for you guys...don't lose yourself in this.
You're killin' me, HS... you're killin' me.
I guess do what you've gotta do. Abstain from the $75 pants for God sakes.
Wow... this is a tough call, and it sounds like you have had your A-ha moment, but it also explains your spending. You do emotional spending like I did. I hope it works out for you. Have Faith and Believe.
I'm glad you are moving forward on the baby front. I could tell by some of your posts that you were really angry and since I'm also dealing with infertility I could totally relate. We have now completed IVF twice. We have gotten pregnant both times but have had two loses. Of course this doesnt mean this will happen to you. Many people get pregnant their first try and our successful and others take many trys. There are no guarantees. But that is life! I have no regrets. I wish the results would have been different, but no regrets. We have frozen embroys. I have not paid for storage yet. But we plan on using them in fall! Your insurance company may pay for some of the tests and medication. Starting a family is expensive when you have fertility issues. Rather you choose treatments or adoption the costs are enourmous. I will keep you and your wife in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you hear the pitter patter of little feet shortly!
I can guarantee fertility is way more expensive than infertility.
No, seriously.
Spend the $16k on some freaking couples therapy and you'll get a much better investment. Hell, you'll probably even conceive naturally once you and the wifey smooth out issues (and yes, you guys have issues).
Sandy,
That's comforting, glad to know I'm not the only one in the world with this issue... Sorry about the loses, but like you said there are no guarantees, at least we can say we tried..
HS
What Mutant Supermodel said. Seriously, you're going to spend $16k on IVF treatments (as a start) while you're already $15k in debt that you're LYING TO YOUR WIFE ABOUT .. and you want to bring a child into that situation? REALLY?
People like you don't deserve children. It sickens me to think of the responsible, caring, ADULTS who want children and can't have them and can't afford adoption or IVF when people like you are throwing money at having a baby.
I have never said this to anyone before, but I truly hope it doesn't work for you. No child deserves to be put into the family situation you'll be bringing him or her into - a family of lies and lack of control and self-entitlement.
Babies are expensive. Speaking from experience, it is very difficult to have a baby before you can afford one. There are things your baby will need, and things you will want to do, such as begin saving for college. Quality daycare is very expensive. Giving up a good job to stay home with baby is expensive.
Look before you leap, that is all I am saying.
In all honesty, it appears to me that you are not financially ready.
I am sorry to hear about your frustrations with infertility. I really can't imagine and won't pretend too understand what you are going through.
I know you had a post a while back about talking to your wife about your money issues. I really hope you guys have talked not only because you will soon be facing a harder financial burden, but really you as one person can only take so much.
This is something that you guys both have to deal with before a baby comes. It is really irresponsible to continue such financial destructive behavior. Having money doesn't make you a better parent by any means, but it definitely makes things easier. Lots of stress with a newborn and combined with "hidden" money issues does not equal anything good.
I wish you the best of luck with this undertaking and I just really hope you talk to your wife. She deserves to know what is going on.
Just one last thought, would your wife be okay financially if something were to happen to you. Would she know where to pick up where you left off, would she be completely surprised by your finances. It's just a thought.
Niki,
No, wife would not be OK... I don't think she even knows how to log in to bofa.
HS
I mean this in the nicest way but seriously, you need to consider some kind of counseling. Having a baby will not suddenly make things all better for you. Please, get some help with the issues you already have before you add to them.
HS, I'm so sorry that you and your wife are going through this. I don't think it's stupid to spend the money on trying to have a child. The window for a woman when it comes to getting pregnant is starting to close for you guys. You can always pay off the debt.
With that being said, I agree with the others that you HAVE to get straight with your wife about these money issues. Hiding the debt from her is only making you more burdened, which may be why you overspend. You're under a lot of emotional stress and you shouldn't have to shoulder it all by yourself.
Kara, you should be ashamed of yourself! I am seriously floored by your nasty, angry comments. Many, MANY people out there have babies when they are in much worse financial shape than HS. He just happens to be HONEST (at least to us) about his financial situation, unlike so many others.
Haters gonna hate, but some people take it WAY too far.
I think children are a blessing anyway they arrive!
I can assure you I am not in a finacial position to have either of my kids, but they are here and we make it work. I was very young when I had them (18 and 22), so I did not think about it.
You are older and wiser than I was. And you make a decent living (seriously I make about $20,000 a year with all my child support and still pay all my bills and have a house, with a mortgage.)
Think like this, you have 40 weeks. Live off one of your incomes for that time. Use second income for emergency fund (6-12 months of needed living expenses) and then pay the rest on debt. Then in 40 weeks when wife is on maternity leave you will be used to living on one income and she can have choice to stay home or not. Even if she goes back to work, daycare for infant is about $800-$1000 a month. (At least in NJ it is.) A private nanny will run you about $1,000 -$1,600 a month.
Also do not buy baby all the latest and greatest. Ask all your friends who already have kids what they can share, and do your research on what you will really need (trust me a sling and some baby clothes, plus diapers will be most of what you will need in beginning, oh and a car seat.)
I am with Mutant Supermodel.
Didn't you say in a previous post that the wifey did want to have children and that was an current issue between the two of you? What has changed?
You are so busy trying to get what everyone else has in the quickest way possible that you are willing to be disciplined enough to manage your resources to build a solid foundation for you and your wife (and future children).
Slow down and figure out what you want and create a strategy to get it. Since we as people have many goals there will be some sacrafice along the way. For example: Instead of aggressively paying debt you aggressively save for fertility treatment. I am sure you can think of other examples.
Create the life you want the right way.
@TeachHer I can't apologize for my words. I stand by them. By his own admission, this man lies to his wife about their debt. By his own admission, his job is in jeopardy. By his own admission, he drinks to excess and spends money he doesn't have on liquor and parties. By his own admission, his wife would not be ok if something happened to him. And yet he wants to put their family into MORE debt ... in order to bring a child into that situation?
Do you really really think my very blunt words are unacceptable and out of order? I don't. I think that for he and his wife to have a child right now is grossly negligent. Just because other people do it doesn't make it the right thing to do.
What's going to happen if they have a child and he loses his job? I guarantee you that unless H grows up, this couple is going to crash and burn hard and a divorce will happen at some point. And then what about that child?
I am in no way ashamed of what I wrote. I stand by it. No child should be brought into the family that H and his wife have. I hope they reconsider, but his years of blogging show that he is too selfish and self-involved to even consider the welfare of his potential future child in this situation.
It's all about what he wants and wants now and damn the cost or the consequences because .. in his immortal words ... that's life.
Kara, how dare you say such hurtful, nasty things to somebody who is laying their life open to scrutiny in a way that most of wouldn't dare to?
Asking for advice or inviting comment pn a situation does not give you the right to spit forth your vitrilic prejudices against other human beings.
At least you didn't do it anonymously. I give you some credit for that.
I just discovered your blog a couple of weeks ago, so I wasn't completely sure whether or not you have been open with your wife about your financial situation. From the comments on this post, it seems that she is in the dark. She deserves to know, especially when making this huge decision to add to your family. And you deserve to have a partner in working through this mess! If/when she freaks out, there is plenty of evidence out there of people/couples who have won the debt game with perseverance and hard work. Good luck with everything!
To Kara...
I think you crossed a line. We all are entitled to our opinion, but to be so mean....
To TeacHer...
They are still young. I wouldn't say that the window of opportunity to have a child is closing. She is 31!!!
Look...having a child as a means to fix problems....not the greatest idea. But having been through IF, and losses....when you are at the end of your rope...you will pay ANYTHING to have that baby.
Kara, I agree with teacher, you should be ashamed of your biting, hurtful response. My parents made some terrible financial decisions, but they were still great parents. Who are you to say who "deserves" children?
HS, good luck with in vitro, and I hope you will consider adoption if it should come to that. I also think the advice about counseling is wise...infertility is hard on any relationship, and like you said the spending is masking some deeper problems. Good luck to you and your wife.
I want to thank you a million times over for the future enterainment this episode of your life will bring me. This is exactly what I need for you to have in your life.
The best part is, with your resolve, discipline and decision making abilities, no matter how elegantly or logically someone demonstrates to you how stupid this is; you are still going down this path. God bless you.
Keep up the good work and don't forget to blog about whatever shiny Apple product comes along in the meantime.
@ Kara - I would like to say I respect you for your blunt remarks, but I don't. I think it's obvious that HS and his wife are in a tough spot right now and he's trying to explain to us why he makes some of the decisions he does and you're just spewing your own ridiculous ideas (and probably insecurities) about how things "should" be. You're not offering helpful suggestions. You're not even trying to be understanding. You're just talking. Like I said, it's obvious you have your own insecurities. Keep them to your own blog.
@ Mysti - Yes, HS and his wife are young, but if they are struggling with infertility and want multiple children, it's probably a good idea to get the ball rolling now. My cousin is dealing with the same issues and she wishes that she and her husband had gotten started earlier. Now she fears they may only have one child (she wanted 3).
HS, whatever you and your wife choose to do, perhaps spending a little money on counseling is in order, not just for the money issues but for the infertility issues, too. It's obvious you're very stressed and conflicted, maybe talking to a professional would help.
@ jason...I love your comment
@ kara...I wouldn't have chosen your words for a blog response, but they are definately thoughts I would share if a good friend of mine that found themselves in this situation.
@HS...this isn't about have debt or having a baby it is about creating the life that you want. If you don't want a life of chaos & crisis, then stop making decision that are not aligned with your goals.
We can only assume that you only desire to provide your family with a quality life, even if the behavior you blog about tells a completely different story.
@TeacHer - I spent 8 years dealing with infertility. I know how it works all too well. But 31 is still young. Even if they want several kids. There is no need to add to the pressure.
I wish you and your wife the best of luck, in whatever happens.
I do hope that you guys can get on the same page with finances before a potential child comes on the scene. It will be so much harder to make a change when you're in the throes of child rearing, especially those first few years when they need you for everything.
I hope that it all works out for you and your wife!
@TeachHer ... "spewing your own ridiculous ideas" Wow. Do you really think it's ridiculous of me to think that someone who lies to his wife about their debt should be going into more debt to have a child? If you think that's a "ridiculous idea" then .. well, I guess we really don't have any further discussion, do we?
Moving on, I do find it amusing that in every internet disagreement when one person gets frustrated that they can't come up with an actual logical disagreement, the result to "you have issues" and "you shouldn't be allowed to post here". So what I infer from that is that you can't actually disagree with the content of what I wrote, and instead must resort to attacking me personally and policing the internet. You should work on that. ;)
Finally however, after reading this comment thread and the several years of posting on this blog, I actually am beginning to believe that H doesn't actually exist. Or not as the persona he's created here. I am beginning to believe that H is that wonderful Internet creature called a Troll.
Why else would he continually post things like this and then approve all the comments that are made? Why would he approve comments by people telling him he's stupid, that his blog is a train wreck, that his life is a train wreck (things that have been said by people other than me, btw)? Why would he continue to post as he did just a few days ago that he's terrified and unable to sleep by the pressure of the debt that's on him and then turn around and talk about going 10s of thousands into more debt to have a child - a child that he obviously can't afford.
Honestly, I think this is someone who posts this stuff and then sits back and laughs his ass off as people either show sympathy or chew him out for stupidity. He's got to be getting off on this or he wouldn't continue to post it.
Either that or he's someone who has a real need for attention (Munchhausen by Internet, anyone).
And if he is a real person (meaning really in this situation in any way), then can you really say that it's "ridiculous spewing" to say that he should NOT have a child? To say bluntly that it appears that the reason he's having a child is not because he WANTS a child to raise and care for and love, but because it will make him feel better? Because it's what all his friends are doing? Because it's another status symbol that he can dress designer clothing and buy Eddie Bauer strollers for (and go into even more debt doing so)? This child isn't a child of love - it's a child to satisfy his own selfish need to have something. It's a material good, just as much as the iPad, the fancy car, the house in the tony Houston suburbs, the $300 purse, or the $800 party he can show off to his friends.
If a troll, he's done a really good job and kudos to him for maintaining the game. If a real person, he needs some serious serious help, and not a bunch of sycophants on the Internet to tell him to go ahead and have a child and let the chips fall where they may.
I understand that you want a child but I have to warn you, the money issues really will be worse. Having children is wonderful but it is so HARD!! It never ends, it is forever, have you thought about daycare and all the other added expenses? Have you thought about how torn both of you will be leaving the baby in daycare because you won't be able to afford not working? Babies are cute and pregnancy is exciting but that baby grows into a 5 yr old, 10 year old etc, and it gets more and more expensive.
I wish you the best but I promise you as close and you and your wife might become having a baby, every problem that you currently have will be multiplied by 100 by having a baby.
You two could really use some counseling you are both so reactive and self indulgent, that is a recipe for disaster.
good luck with whatever you decide!
tina
@ Kara - LMAO. You are too much. Obviously, you have issues and shouldn't be posting here.
Oh wait...I wasn't supposed to say that, was I?
All,
Keep in mind I' human, I am not perfect, I still have some growing up to do BUT more than anything I want this for my wife- she really wants to have a baby and we only want one child, if things are good down the road we may consider adopting a second child...
HS
So HS, would your wife still "really want" a baby, or want one with you if she knew you've been lying to her about your financial situation for years?
Are you even going to have any kind of financial conversation with her before you drop $16k or more on IVF? Are you going to be honest with her and let her know that if this works there is no way you can afford for her to stay home with this baby that she wants so very badly? What are you going to say to her when she decides that she wants to quit work and stay home? How are you going to tell her that she can't because you can't afford it?
And even w/out thinking of any of this you're already talking about adopting a SECOND CHILD???
No one is perfect. None of us are perfect. But intentionally bringing a child into this situation is wrong. Flat out. Do whatever you want for yourself and your wife. If you lose everything due to your own stupid choices, it only affects the two of you as adults. But don't force the consequences of your actions onto a child.
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Good luck with the procedure!
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